Posts by Coded Logic

There is a false dichotomy being presented here. I can respect someone and simultaneously not act in accord with their wishes. These are not mutually exclusive propositions.

Because I respect PEOPLE. But that doesn't mean I respect all ideas. There's a huge difference!

What a person wants to do with their body is their business. If someone is conscious and refuses blood I would try to convince them otherwise. And if they were unconscious and I was tasked with their welfare - I would make the most moral decision I could - in accordance with the sanctity of human life. Because human well being trumps personal preference EVERY single time.

47

Since you left, have you become more moral?

by Coded Logic in

respect.

sympathy.

gossip.

Coded Logic

Since the process of thinking if different for each person, doesn't that imply that morality is subjective?

No. A person is either correctly assessing a situation or they are not (thus why I used the specific term critical thinking). Different people doing an algebra equation may come up with different answers. But that doesn't mean that algebra is subjective. Only that some people aren't good at mathematics.The same is true with morality. Lots of people don't know how to best promote well being. But that doesn't mean morality is subjective. Only that some people aren't good at assessing the outcomes of complex situations.

However, different reactions to the same situation can both be viewed as moral or immoral, depending on your viewpoint.

Just because different people have different viewpoints doesn't mean that morality is subjective. Because morality is not measured by sincerity. It's measured by effect. Hitler was sincere in his belief that Jews should be exterminated. But his actions were nonetheless in direct conflict with the well being of sentient creatures.
. . .
In regards to your question of whether or not to steal life saving drugs - the "correct" action to take is the one that maximizes well being while causing the least amount of unnecessary harm and suffering. The well being of sentient creatures covers a lot of ground. But we start with some basic precepts - life is generally preferable to death, pleasure/happiness is generally preferable to pain/suffering, fairness is generally preferable to bias, etc - and we work from there.
Weather or not it's moral to steal is entirely dependent upon the actions that theft would have. If there is a finite amount of medicine and stealing would mean someone else dying - then due to unfairness it may not be moral to steal. Or if stealing caused everyone else to start stealing all the time - then it may cause more harm than good. However, if the theft causes very little or no harm to anyone else and it saves a life - then the action would be moral. And, just because we may not know the outcome of a particular situation - doesn't mean there's not a correct answer.
I should also point out - morality is almost never binary. That is to say, there may be actions that would cause the most unnecessary harm and actions that would cause the most well being - but there are very often actions that lay somewhere in between. Maybe bribing the pharmacist is better than outright stealing. Or breaking in and stealing ALL the drugs would be worse than just taking what you need. etc.

35

Lurkers: A truth is either true, or it isn't. There is no in between.

by cappytan in

jw
friends

truth is absolute.

there is no such thing as 2=1 or 1=2.. if one starts out with the equation 2=1, one has already failed.. truth = truth.

you cannot change whether something is truth or not.. when the organization teaches one thing as a truth (ex.

Coded Logic

Truth is the label we apply to claims that match reality. Therefore, a claim is either true or it's not true.

Just because certain terms are conditional or relative (such as words like "tall" or "good") doesn't mean that the truth is nebulous. It just means we have to specifically know what is meant when someone says "tall" or "good" before we can asses whether or not their claim matches reality.

Words don't have intrinsic meanings. They have usages.
-Matt Dillahunty

As a side note - mathematics in and of itself is never true or false. As an abstraction, it can only ever be accurate or inaccurate just like claims about the force in Star Wars could only ever be accurate or inaccurate. In order for mathematics to be true or false it has to be in relation to something in the real world. For example, if I take these two oranges and put them with those two oranges then I will have a total four oranges - would be true. But 2+2=4 isn't true - it's accurate.

47

Since you left, have you become more moral?

by Coded Logic in

respect.

sympathy.

gossip.

Coded Logic

When I say "moral" I mean the process of critical (and sometimes heuristic) thinking we use to evaluate the actions and behaviors of ourselves and others. Most generally, the metric we use for that evaluation is the well being of sentient creatures.

While the word "moral" may cover a broad range of concepts and ideas - it doesn't then follow that morality is subjective. People use the word "red" in a lot of different ways at different times. But it doesn't then follow that when I say something is "red" its color is entirely arbitrary or subjective.

Don't confuse the arbitrary use of a word as meaning that all concepts attached to that word are therefore arbitrary.

15

A Linguistic Argument for the Existence of God

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

http://www.etsjets.org/files/jets-pdfs/58/58-4/jets_58-4_771-86_baumgardner&lyon.pdf.

my favourite "logical" progression.... we demonstrated that because meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material.

we further showed that there is no indication that matter can generate non-material meaning-bearing linguistic expressions.

Coded Logic

meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material.

This claim is easily debunked as the first premise (above) can easily be shown to be false. I'll even put it syllogistic form for logic nerds:

P1.) Meaning is produced by brians.

P2.) Brains are material.

Conclusion: Meaning is material process. Therefore meaning is not "non-material".

11

Ever wondered which country in the JW Annual Report is most likely to reflect overall decline/progress of the WTS?

by besty in

a bit of spreadsheet fun - trying to ascertain which country is the bellwether for the wts.. my methodology was as follows:.

take the individual ar's from 2010 - 2016 and calculate an accurate (.00) ave pub increase/decrease for each country.

sort the countries into descending order by this value with the grand total row included in the mix.. assign the countries 5 places above and 5 places below the grand total 1 point.

Coded Logic

Im surprised Australia isn't in there somewhere, with all the drama

We wont know how big of an impact the ARC had until we get next years numbers for THIS year.

33

New York Times article Dec 31 2015

by Gayle in

jw
friends

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/01/nyregion/stalled-brooklyn-park-exposes-rift-with-religious-group.html?_r=0.

jehovahs witnesses have been criticized by community leaders for not fixing up parks in dumbo, brooklyn, as promised.

.

Coded Logic

They haven't done anything for ten years after promising to build a park for rezoning rights?

What's wrong with these guys? The community has every right to be outraged.

16

2016 Yearbook service report stats - Excel spreadsheet download available

by Westenddave in

hello,.

i've posted the 2016 yearbook service report in excel format for public download.

here's the link: http://www.filedropper.com/2016yearbookofjwinexcelformat.

Coded Logic

Wow, the "growth rate" of publishers worldwide is off by a factor of 10 when compared to the human population growth rate! Publishers increased by a measly 0.01% (that's right - one tenth of one percent) vs. a population increase of 1.13%. And in the United State the margins are even bigger - by a factor of 100! Publishers up 0.007% vs US population growth rate of 0.7%. Crazy!

How long before we start seeing negative growth in the US?

*Correction: Both the world and US growth rates are off by a factor of 100. This just gets better and better! :)

54

The Watchtower is not invincible

by Coded Logic in

despite claims to the contrary, there's no guarantee the watchtower will be around in a few decades time.

and it seems to me there's ever mounting evidence that the opposite may well be true.

but it's not just that recruitment is down and their defectors are up.

Coded Logic

I remind myself that there are still Bible Students that follow Studies in the Scriptures.

I suppose it boils down to a question of identity. Will the JWs go away completely? No. Is there a chance we could see them become a shell of them former selves with almost no infrastructure in most countries and an inability to recruit? I'd say the odds aren't looking good for them.

isn't most of this stuff any religion? Like being homophobic. If you aren't, you're not following the Bible.

The Bible claims a great deal many things and a whole lot of it is self contradictory. Furthermore, a lot of denominations place far more importance on the teachings of Jesus about love and acceptance over the crazy ramblings of Paul - and lots of churches don't even touch the Old Testament. But when it comes to critiquing any given denomination I don't care what their holy book says. I care about what they actually teach. And how they treat other people.

In mainstream Christianity you don't see tribalism to such a degree as with the JWs - where they think every other branch of Christianity is the work of Satan. We also see lots of churches where women are seen as equals to their husbands and where it is okay for a woman to be a preacher. And the blood doctrine is the sole property of the WT.